piefed.nullspaceByzantine defenders and an Italian mercenary before the fall of Constantinople
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PugJesushttps://media.piefed.social/posts/ct/kg/ctkgQs1Pn2yl1nL.jpeg
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Which one is Constantine? Middle or right?
Right - the purple cloak and diadem.
I should have assumed from the fancy armour
How does a Byzantine and an Italian be separated?
Isn't Byzantium the Roamn empire with a new capital due to religious shift to X-ianity?
The people living in the current Italian speaking state were still differentiated and with their own conflicts, territorial shifts and moves. The term Byzantine/Byzantium was not very common till much later when history was translated to serve the formation of modern states, rather than feudalism and city-states and empires.
It took centuries for Northern and Western Europeans to push the Ottoman empire back East and declare ethnic states in E.Med. And some of the interests served through this historical redefinition was nothing other than serving capitalist interests and imperialism.
@PugJesus
Yes and no. The Byzantine Empire is a term used to refer to the remnant state of the Eastern Roman Empire after the West fell, but in its own time, only themselves and the Muslim world called them Roman; the Frankish West and Norse called them the Empire of the Greeks. The Byzantine Empire shifted not just the capital, but the cultural focus of the old Roman Empire - and while at the time of the split the Roman Empire was very far from the Principate era we associated it with, the Byzantines would drift even further away towards a more Hellenized and Christian worldview, to the point of being nearly unrecognizable.
Yes and no as well.
Initially it is a roman empire, different capital different religion (to relieve Xians movement) and adoptation of biblical Greek latinized (characters) to separate from the Pagan roots of Rome. Nothing to do with Greeks as ethnicity. The emperor himself a Roman from (Kosovo area?) was not even a X-ian himself, so it is all political.
The East West split comes much later due to religious reasons (rooted in Economics of Rome/Vatican) .. and evolves into a jurisdiction/political split with the final blow being the crusades (not for the called reason) but for raiding and weakening the East. So the Vatican weakened the East to the point of serving it to the Ottomans in a platter.
Some centuries go by and the West now wants the Turks weakened so they manufacture the Greek ethnicity nearly 2000 years after it had vanished.
By then capitalism is becoming established, so they all go to hell and the "west" becomes the new "east".
Greek became a reincarnated language in Roman times due to Paul writing the books in Greek (biblical Greek) and the empire adopting that foreign language as official.
The Greek national identity is a newly manufactured identity that serves power/economic interests of the "west".
Thanks to German catholics royals heading this new state, ethnic cleansing of various ethnic groups and languages is more drastic than any place we know. What the ottomans/turks didn't achieve in 4-5 centuries, the Germans achieved in 100 years.
The term Byzantine is much newer and shorter lived term than the object it describes, 3rd-15th century Roman empire.
@PugJesus
What? No, not at all. The change to Greek had nothing to do with religion, ‘biblical Greek’ was not what was changed to, Greek was not written in Latinized characters as a standard in east or west, and all of that was besides the pagan/Christian conflict of the period.
The final split of the Eastern and Western empires came at the behest of Theodosius I, who was very much a Christian. In any case, the issue is not that the Byzantine Empire was formed as a consciously Greek state; it’s that, comprised almost entirely of Hellenized peoples, it became one pretty damn fast (~200 years) once it was no longer coupled with the Latinized West.
Bruh, by the 9th century AD the Byzantines were calling Latin a ‘barbarian’ language, and the Franks were calling the Byzantines the Empire of the Greeks. The conceptual split of east and west far predates the Crusades. For that matter, the idea that the Crusades were a conspiracy from the Vatican to weaken the Byzantine Empire is bizarre.
… fucking what.
You… you do realize that ethnic Greeks never stopped existing, right? They didn’t ‘vanish’ after being conquered by Rome.
… what.
That’s not even close to true. Holy shit.
Greek had been long established as a lingua franca outside of Greece before the New Testament was written, and, in Rome in particular, as a language of elite education and culture. Julius Caesar, who predates the writing of the gospels by over a century, spoke fluent Greek, and this was considered normal amongst the Roman elite; a fashion that ebbed and flowed with the level of Latin literary nativism going on at any given time. At no point was Greek being ‘biblical’ a key point in the usage of Greek by the Roman Empire, and the definitive change to Greek happened only in the East some 200 years after the fall of the Western Empire.
Fucking what
This is one of the most insane things I’ve read on here this month.